ORT in violation of law AGAIN
I checked the st Louis county code regarding political signs:
Political Campaign Signs
The St. Louis County Zoning Ordinance (Section 1003.168D.5.3) permits political campaign signs without a building permit in any zoning district subject to the following:
No permit from St. Louis County is required.
Political campaign signs may announce the candidates seeking public political office and other pertinent data.
Maximum size of any one sign: 8 sq. ft.
Maximum total sign area for all signs combined: 16 sq. ft. total for each lot or each dwelling unit.
Sign(s) shall be erected on private property only.
Signs(s) may not be placed in the public right of way, including sidewalk area and street area
Signs(s) shall be removed within 7 days after the election for which they were made.
These are the regulations set forth by St. Louis County. Some subdivisions may have additional deed restrictions.
Please visit Temporary Signs for information on permitted temporary signs in St. Louis County.
© St. Louis County Government 41 South Central, Clayton, Missouri 63105 Terms of Use Privacy Policy
according to Overland Ordinance the sidewalk area is determined to be:
SECTION 100.030: HOW CODE DESIGNATED AND CITED
The ordinances embraced in the following Chapters and Sections shall constitute and be designated the "The Municipal Code of the City of Overland," and may be so cited. (Code 1961 §1-1; CC 1976 §1-1)
SIDEWALK: The word "sidewalk" shall mean any portion of a street between the curbline and the adjacent property line, intended for the use of pedestrians, excluding parkways.
When you see the retain Purzner signs and the signs for various ORT candidates between the street and the property line they are violating st Louis county ordinance. Maybe we should contact Mr McCulloch's office http://www.co.st-louis.mo.us/pa/ and inform him of this violation of St Louis county ordinance. And maybe we should contact the St Louis County board of elections http://www.co.st-louis.mo.us/Elections/ and let them know of this violation of St Louis County law.
Political Campaign Signs
The St. Louis County Zoning Ordinance (Section 1003.168D.5.3) permits political campaign signs without a building permit in any zoning district subject to the following:
No permit from St. Louis County is required.
Political campaign signs may announce the candidates seeking public political office and other pertinent data.
Maximum size of any one sign: 8 sq. ft.
Maximum total sign area for all signs combined: 16 sq. ft. total for each lot or each dwelling unit.
Sign(s) shall be erected on private property only.
Signs(s) may not be placed in the public right of way, including sidewalk area and street area
Signs(s) shall be removed within 7 days after the election for which they were made.
These are the regulations set forth by St. Louis County. Some subdivisions may have additional deed restrictions.
Please visit Temporary Signs for information on permitted temporary signs in St. Louis County.
© St. Louis County Government 41 South Central, Clayton, Missouri 63105 Terms of Use Privacy Policy
according to Overland Ordinance the sidewalk area is determined to be:
SECTION 100.030: HOW CODE DESIGNATED AND CITED
The ordinances embraced in the following Chapters and Sections shall constitute and be designated the "The Municipal Code of the City of Overland," and may be so cited. (Code 1961 §1-1; CC 1976 §1-1)
SIDEWALK: The word "sidewalk" shall mean any portion of a street between the curbline and the adjacent property line, intended for the use of pedestrians, excluding parkways.
When you see the retain Purzner signs and the signs for various ORT candidates between the street and the property line they are violating st Louis county ordinance. Maybe we should contact Mr McCulloch's office http://www.co.st-louis.mo.us/pa/ and inform him of this violation of St Louis county ordinance. And maybe we should contact the St Louis County board of elections http://www.co.st-louis.mo.us/Elections/ and let them know of this violation of St Louis County law.
posted by John Doe at 8:29 AM
64 Comments:
Wow! Great job John Doe. I think all candidates (in all races, not just munis) would be surprised that they are not allowed to put them in the right-of-way. I think many folks think because it is in the easement that they can put their sign there.
With all the rules of what I can and can't do with that strip of grass I don't know why it is even considered mine. Maybe the City or the County should cut the grass there. J/K :-)
Sweaty,
I'm well aware of the fact you do not live in Overland you have stated it enough. So then there's no reason for you to be at the meetings. So I guess we also, will not be seeing you what on the 26th.
Also, don't two liar me, talk to your friend Ann who put you on her report for being paid. It does not say you were paid then turned it over to the delivery people. I swear between you and Goat here we go again, I WAS NOT THE ONE THAT SAID THAT OR REPORTED WHAT WAS ON PURZNER' FINANCIAL REPORT.
Glad to hear you're not going to be at the debate you have no business being there, you do not live here and CAN NOT VOTE HERE.
And get out from between Enis' legs this is not high school or are you two dating now?
Overland,
I have always heard the city has a 10 ft easement, so the way I take it, it was never mine to begin with. But I still maintain it.
If the easement is to the city, only official city departments can access it. That does not make it available for "Public" use. I can not set up my bbq grill on the easement in front of my neighbor's house and sell bbq there because I don't want the mess in my own yard.
All this is well and good but the St. Louis County Zoning Ordinance applies only to unincorporated St. Louis County. Overland has adopted its own zoning ordinance. You would need to refer to Overland's zoning ordinance sign provisions (or separate sign ordinance as the case may be).
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Oh my gosh, I just got a gander at Mr. Wanda Knode's website. It is so hilarious. What a doofus. Those corn ball videos are funnier than Purzner the lying RN's videos.
And people voted for this nut?
Talk about FREE comedy.....LOL
Just a short note to let everyone know that the video clips from the Overland Candidates Debate are available at The Overland Examiner in This Post.
There are a number of video files linked to this article so it might take a few moments for the page to load. :-)
Thanks Sailor!
Wow, Sailor, GREAT job. Thank you.
So, let me get this right. This Peggy Keller knows nothing about budgets, yet claims there is money for free trash....LOL Oh boy, oh boy....zombie...that is all I can think of when I listened to her. Oh gee I wonder who has been filling Peggy's head with that trashy nonsense....Polly want a cracker?
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Musical Wine Bear Note,
From Robert's Rules of Order (The Classic Manual of Parliamentary Procedure). Article III, Section 11. The Motion to Adjourn takes precedence over all others. It is not debatable, it cannot be amended or have any subsidiary motion attached to it; NOR CAN A VOTE ON IT BE RECONSIDERED........... key word is "vote". Furthermore, the official notes to the Rules of Order unequivocally state that the Motion to Adjourn cannot be made when another has the floor, nor after a question has been put and the assembly engaged in voting, but it is in order after the vote is taken.
I would also like to add that the Rules state that the business interrupted by the adjournment is to be the first in order after the reading of the minutes at the next meeting. It is treated as though there had been no adjournment.
So even back in 1907, General Henry Robert of the US Army Corps of Engineers adopted the rule that you can run but you cannot hide.
Lastly, there is no REQUIREMENT that personnel matters be discussed in Executive Session. It is an exception to the Sunshine Law that personnel matters MAY be discussed behind closed doors. Most elected bodies choose to do so to avoid revealing personal information and/or litigation strategy but is not required.
The Mayor's inability to follow SIMPLE rules is what precipitated the recall in the first place. As they say, you can't teach an old dog new tricks and, believe me, that dog is looking older and older.
Awesome Job Sailor absolutely fantastic work. You did us proud. Great service to the community.
Oak' blew Keller out of the water the other night. God help ward 3 if they vote her in, they still won't have any representation. She kept forgetting to answer the questions asked but did remember trash & let's not forget the pool.
Jones in ward 4 was funny he was after her & would start with "the question was." She'd look at him like huh.
I hope they compensated Karr well in 4. She was so out of her league she would have been better off not showing up.
I found it amusing Knode looked nervous all night & messed up quite a bit when speaking.
Hello all, this is Sherry Karr and I thought I would drop in and defend myself for a moment. As you said "Twolayer" I might have been a little out of my league. Maybe that is because no one is as you say, "compensating" me. Every answer to every question, as well as my opening and closing statements came from me. I am just a regular resident here in Overland. I am the one who paid for my signs, copies of my litature and so on.
I am a honest and caring person who thinks she can make a difference.What I don't know now, I can learn. So, if what comes from my heart and not a group of people makes me "out of my league" well I think I'll just stay in a league of my own.I think Overland needs someone honest.
If you have any questions or any more comments to make about me, feel free to email me,I can handle the constructive criticism. You can get my email address on; http://overlandexaminer.com
By the way "Overland Sailor", good job on taping the debate!
Thank you.
Sherry
Sherry,
Thanks for joining the debate.
When you get endorsements from folks like Owensby or Knode, people will assume that comes with a contribution (what endorsement doesn't).
So, are you stating that you do not welcome such endorsements from the ORTian crowd? Or, that you got the pain of the endorsements without the benefit of a campaign contribution?
Now Pickles is claiming multiple personalities.
Karr4,
If you want to stay in you're own league then don't be seen walking out with the mayor and her band of idiots after a meeting.
And if you want to remain a honest person, these are not the kind of people you would want to be associated with.
Willing to learn is great. In order to learn about Overland and what is going on what have you been doing since you decided to run to prepare yourself?
How many council, planning & zoning, budget etc meetings have you attended over the past year? How many groups/organizations in Overland do you belong to?
What is you educational & work history background?
As far as being endorsed by anyone, I would welcome it from anyone. It gets my name out there, regardless of who you associate it with. The Overland Citizens for Good Goverment did not approach me with such an offer, and I am guessing it was because they already had "their" candidate. I am not getting contributions, I kind of wish I was, this gets pretty exspensive!!
I can tell you that as I had said in my closing, I don't think that this should be about the ORT or the COGG. It needs to be about Overland. If and when I am elected, it wont matter WHO the Mayor is or WHO the other Councilmembers that are elected. I will have to work with them.
What I have seen from talking to people around here is that there are so many different opinions, there are people or are for and againist our Mayor and for and againist our Councilmen.
How I will vote on April 3 is my own personal choice, as is yours.
I welcome your comments and suggestions. I am speaking from my heart when I say that I went in to this honestly thinking that I could, in some way make a difference. You all have your opinions on things and they are just as valuble as anyone else's.
I want to address Mr. Whitefolks and ask you, are you in Ward 4? Because if you aren't I wouldn't have your vote anyway. And something tells me your mind is already made up.
T OR C, Why does it matter where I bought my signs from??? And BTW, thank you for saying I didn't do all that bad. Can't say I didn't try.
Karr4,
Forgot to ask, did you sign the recall petition? If you are not associated with any one group, when you were endorsed by Knode & Owensby did you call them to let them know they did not have your approval to make such statements?
When was I seen walking out of a City Council Meeting with the Mayor?
If you HAVE seen me there, then how come you yourself haven't been keeping track of how many meetings I have attended?
You see, it doesn't matter what jobs I have had or my educational level, I think that Mickey Mouse could do a better job then some up on the Council as of now. Atleast he would bring a smiling face to the table.
Twolayer, if you feel that you can teach me something, feel free. I am always willing to learn something new.
Just wondering, are you the man that approached me after the Debate?
No, I did not sign the petiton.
Okay, fair enough, I went to Mark's Quick Printing. I think they look fine.
I don't have a problem with him.
Karr4,
No I was not the man that approached you at the debate.
I was simply asking you how involved you have been with Overland over the past year or years and what you have done to prepare yourself for the job.
Ok, then let's start with this.
How did or do you feel about the mayor' choice for city administrator, Joe King?
How did or do you feel about them wanting to go with Matthew McWilliams with AIG for insurance?
How do you feel about a budget that would allow only 2 cans of trash to be paid for but not recycle, yardwaste, white goods or bulk items?
T or C, Perhaps Marky Mark is using his old Alderman templates on Karr's signs.
Ms. Karr, I think the people on this board in Ward 4 (of which I am) can fairly ask you your educational and civic background. It's not like it's a deal breaker. You could have a PhD but in English Lit but that doesn't make you more qualified to be on the council than others. However, you could have a high school diploma and taking many seminars in muni government--that would make you more qualified (in my eyes) than the English Lit guy.
Civic background is just that--have you shown previous interest in the community?
I must say I am a little leery of the "As far as being endorsed by anyone, I would welcome it from anyone. It gets my name out there, regardless of who you associate it with" statement. Would you really take an endorsement from anyone? Even the Metaphysical Scientological National Socialists for the Advancement of Colorblind People?
Ms. Karr, to be endorsed by Owensby or Knode kind of sealed your fate for a loss. Birds of a feather syndrome. I think Owensby did Peggy Keller in for endorsing her. However, Peggy Keller just parroted Owensby’s words during the debate, Keller did a very sad job. Overland spoke loud and clear with almost 4 thousand signatures that the Mayor has to go and I would venture to guess those very same people that want Purzner the lying RN out, also want the 3 clowns who follow her, Sellers, Owensby and Knode. Sorry you wasted all your money for signs et cetera :-(. You should have chosen your associates/endorsements more wisely.
I do not have any special degrees and I do not and have not belonged to any special organizations. I do not.
What I meant about taking endorsments from anyone, maybe I should have said any side as seems to be the issue here. I don't have alot of money.
I have not met with the "COGG'S" but I have met with the "ORT'S"
I do not know who Joe King and Mathew Mcwilliams are sir.
You can give him a call and find out I think it depends on the color, size ect.
426-0419
Why didn't you meet with COGG? If you want to be non-partial. Why do you feel Purzner should remain in office?
THEY DIDN'T APPROACH ME. Tell them to call me,I'll meet with anyone.
Ms. Karr,
Once again, why do you feel Purnzer should remain in office???
OOoops, that should be Purzner.
Look, I just don't think that it is anyone's business but my husband and I as to how much I paid for my signs.
And two, NGIT, I only said that I did not sign a petition. So, tell me why hasn't the COGG called me???
Ms. Karr,
They didn’t approach YOU? You are campaigning you should be the one to reach out and approach people, not the other way around.
Once, again, why do you think Purzner should remain in office as Mayor?
Once again NGIT, I just said that I did not sign a petition.
And again, I am willing to talk to anyone.
Ms. Karr,
Please lets be direct with one another, no skirting around issues. Well, if you didn't sign the petition for recall, you must want to keep Purzner Con in office. My question is why do you think Purzner should remain the Mayor of Overland?
Ms. Karr it is YOUR job to contact people and organizations when you campaign, not the other way around.
Ok...Ok...let me ask it this way, Ms. Karr. Do you think Purzner should be recalled? Do you think she should remain the Mayor of Overland? Regardless if you signed the recall or not. What are your feelings about keeping or not keeping Purzner in office?
Ms. Karr, you are avoiding my question with a silly "pat" answer about not signing the recall petition.
Never mind....I get it. You want Mayor Purzner to remain in office for reasons best known to you I guess. Sigh....
Karr4,
You said you are willing to learn.
First, lesson, it's called net working to get your face & name out there. That's why I asked how many groups/org. you belonged to. That's why we are asking you so many questions, we do not know you. It's nothing personal.
That's why I asked how many meetings etc you have been attending or have attended. If you had been you would know who Joe King & Matthew McWilliams are.
Second lesson, Joe King is in JAIL. He was the city admin. for Berkeley who was taking kickbacks from Matthew McWilliams w/AIG who is or was the insurance carrier for St. Charles brought in by Mark Brown.
I believe you said you are a stay at home mom. You of all people should know who Matthew McWilliams is, he got in trouble from I believe, CHILD PRONOGRAPHY. I don't know about you but as a parent I do not want him associated any way, shape or form with my home.
Third lesson, if you have learned nothing yet but had been attending the meetings, then you would know one of the biggest problems in my opionin besides the lying is that Purzner, Knode, Sellers or Owensby refuse to answer questions.
Do not start off on the wrong foot.
Sorry Donna Dills just supported you on the chat, that's even worse the Knode or Owensby.
Sorry, COG did not approach you because no one knows you.
Just a thought on the Recall signature issue.
There were a lot of people who chose not to sign the petition for reasons other than thinking Mayor Purzner should stay in office.
Many people didn't want to sign because when they were told it would become a public document they were fearful of retribution. Others chose not to sign because at the time they didn't feel like they had enough information. Of course there were many that were not home when the people from COGG came by.
Support of the Mayor is only one of a host of reasons someone might not have signed the Recall, and based on the people I have talked to in town that was the least given reason of them all.
Actually, I believe what you pay for signs is the public's business and not just that of you and your husband's. It's called campaign disclosure. Another one of those pesky laws that gets in the way of those who have trouble following simple rules.
In case I have confused the Karrs and to avoid any passive aggressive non-responsive quips from another of Ann's monkeys, I will spell it out. Let's say that TuWong printed your signs for free or let's say it was for below market value. The difference between what you paid and the true value is tantamount to a campaign contribution. At risk of being run by John Doe and Gravy for my too-fresh approach, I will dumb it down even more. There is no difference between receiving $500 cash from TuWong or $500 worth of signs.... Comprende?
Who gives to a campaign is relevant and, in fact, certain disclosures and reports are required by State law. If you choose to hind behind the "none of your business" excuse in those filings, Ms. Carnahan followed by Mr. Nixon will soon be writing you a letter. Hey but at least cigs are cheap in the pen.
So, in the end, its better just to say who supports you, enunciate your position on the issues and tell the voters why you think you can make a difference. Transparency is key.
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WhiteGravy,
I believe that was the response that William Webster (the former Atty Genl, not the former head of FBI) gave about those government owned copy machines that he used in his campaign against Mr. Carnahan. Web ended up doing a stretch up in Minny. Funny how those copy shops can get you in trouble.
The Maul
Update,
My wife just got home, there are signs that have popped up at the corner of Sims & Lackland again.
Sign reads:
VOTE NO PROP A
STOP TAX INCREASE
Save our mayor
paid for by Wanda Knode
Signs are in yellow & red.
False statement. Prop A has nothing to do with tax increase.
Also, there is a sign to Recall May, another false statement, there is no recall on the April ballot to recall councilman May.
Will these "F's" stop at nothing.
Sorry I had to tend to my son, and your questions were on hold for a while.
The monies that I spend on my campaign ARE none of YOUR concern. If you would like to have them looked into, go right ahead.
The only reason that I chose to make myself known on here is because I am not a coward and wanted to address Twolayer.
Now that I have done that, I think I am done here. I wasn't here to win votes from you, I wasn't going to get them anyway.
Take care.
Question -
If anyone can put up a sign between the sideway and street without asking the property owner, does that mean that anyone, again without asking, take it down????
I guess if they put them up without asking, I wouldn't think anyone would have to ask permission to take them down, but that's just my opinion.
There is another on Lackland Rd. across from Phil Paul's gas station also, just in case you'd like to know.
Twolayer,
I thought I was done but this was weighing on my mind:
"I believe you said you are a stay at home mom. You of all people should know who Matthew McWilliams is, he got in trouble from I believe, CHILD PRONOGRAPHY. I don't know about you but as a parent I do not want him associated any way, shape or form with my home."
Well I do freqeuntly look at the Offenders list, I cannot say that I have heard or seen this name before. Could you please elaborate?
How is he in anyway tied to my home???
Well, that didn't take long for her to show her true colors.
If she can't handle answering questions here what in the world is she going to do at a council meeting.
What happened to wanting to learn. And I'm just a honest person. Ms. Karr this is part of the learning process.
Alright I think I found him, out of Bourbon Mo? But I am still questioning the ties to my home??
No, sir it didn't take me long, long enough to get my child in bed.
Karr4,
Overland is my home, I do not want the city in which I live doing business with this kind of man.
Nor do I want a man that is in jail as our city administrator.
To see what kind of people you are associating with, look at the new signs Wanda Knode is putting out.
If you are smart you will run as fast as you can away from these people.
twolayer,
I have asked Ms. Karr SEVERAL times, why she thinks Purzner RN should or should not stay in office and she refuses to answer. So much for the I want to get to know you and I am honest and so on. Sorry, Ms. Karr but you have the classic markings of the ORT.
Wow, you have a child that hits the hey at 4:30? DOE!!!!
New Girl,
I agree, how are we to get to know a person when they refuse to answer the most basic of questions.
If one does not want to answer questions one should not be running for public office.
If one does like answering questions before they are even elected, one has to wonder how one is going to handle questions after they are.
Your campaign finances, supporters and expenditures will soon become our business. You should be very careful and painstakingly accurate on your disclosures to be filed with the Secretary of State. You can rest assured we will request copies and report any irregularities. You started this with your ridicuoulsy naive appraoch on this board. For your own sake, it is probably better for you to go back to putting your children to bed and leave the politics to those with the intellect to carry it out. You mam are a joke.
Just popped over to Overland Chat. I am not as intellectual as say Gravy but, Hey goatbitch, the word is R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S. As in you are so f-ing stupid you don't know how to spell "Ridicules". By the way, we know you read the site everyday. Its why we post. Its like making fun of the dimwitted janitor. That's you.
Maddog 20/20 aka Fine Wine,
Ms. Karr told more about herself by not answering the questions then if she would have.
Please explain the following,
"this bull about Joe King & maybe Williams", what bull?
It's apparent that neither one of you have any idea about what is going on at city hall or that you read a paper or watch the news. If you would have been, you would know what the bull is.
She unfortunately made it quite clear she doesn't have a clue about
anything.
Rest assured that my campaign fianances have not gotten to the thousand dollar mark, therefore, not public knowledge.
If you would like to insult me you are free to do so. I will not lower myself to that level.
Thank you.
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Karr,
Your welcome. I realize I am free to insult you which is why I do it. I think you are wise not to lower yourself, engaging in a debate on this site is not for the misinformed or those with the half-baked ideas. Its best to play in the league that matches your skill set.
Your campaign finance position is a good example of your playing in a league that you don't understand. I suspect what little you know comes from Ann or TuWong. The exemptions in Chapter 130 RsMo are not exemptions from following the law. They are exemptions from the types of reporting required. There are strict limitations on how much a candidate can receive from any one donor (regardless of your reporting status). I suspect TuWongs "donation" of your signs may well be enough to exceed the threshhold and, if it is, you are violating the law. So let's ask the question again and if you are an up-front candidate with nothing to hide you can answer. How much did you pay for your signs from Mark?
Next time you're talking to Ann ask her how it feels to get her ass drug into court and each time getting her ass handed to her, REPEATEDLY. I don't guess I would ask her for a lawyer referral though.
T&C,
This is the issue. Other than the so-called free trash thing, ORT has no issue except their antiquated misinformed view of the world. If you want to move on, go for it. As for me, I will keep poking at the opossum stuck in the trashcan.
Maul it.
Wanda' new signs are now down on Lackland Rd. by the old gas station and are gone from Lackland & Sims.
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