A new poll
The Queen has a new poll on her website. This one is great. It asks:
Very clever wording. Hardly anyone could disagree with "tighter fiscal control" or "greater protections". However, re-allocating our tax dollars (aka the city budget) is a big part of the city council's job. Thus, the last part of the question makes the entire question nonsensical.
Do Overland taxpayers need greater protections and tighter fiscal controls to restrict their TAX DOLLARS from being RE-ALLOCATED local government?
Very clever wording. Hardly anyone could disagree with "tighter fiscal control" or "greater protections". However, re-allocating our tax dollars (aka the city budget) is a big part of the city council's job. Thus, the last part of the question makes the entire question nonsensical.
posted by suzyjax at 11:23 AM
30 Comments:
Edgar,
Yikes, that was like watching beasts in a horror flick!!! The only normal characters were the News Caster and the COGG leader.
Sweaty,
Got any thing to say to Mr. Whitefolks.
And by the way using Fanny Mae did not fool anyone. You seem to forget all the people you have come in contact with over the years. Neighbors, past and present, business associates, your husbands & family members that are more then willing to spill the beans about you.
As far as post-ann, I'm not counting any chickens until they walk her out of city hall. This fight is far from over. Not that thinking about a post ann is not a good idea.
Sweaty,
I have heard more things about you then I care to remember, from your so called friends.
Oh, and thanks they started putting up the christmas lights down Lackland today, did your husband have a cash hand in that?
Is Purzner accusing the Election Board of being dishonest or COGG?
Purzner and Owenswig want time to check the signatures, I take it they don't trust the Election Board checking the legitimacy of the signatures.
Ghost,
Although I wish Mr. Herman would have controlled himself better, but on the same token, I believe every one of us has a breaking point and Mr. Herman just couldn't take Purzner Con's BS anymore. Don't forget we are still all mortals here on earth Ghost, and I'm sure you yourself have lost your cool whilst you walked amongst us. I'm sure Mr. Herman regrets his actions last night, but the man has taken more than his share of guff from Purzner and her 3 clowns.
A few comments,
Whitefolks, probably it is tedius. But, I agree with Two layer and am not one to put the cart before the horse. I believe we need to keep hammering away at why Ann is wrong for Overland until she is recalled.
Herman was a complete drama queen last night. However, it was revealed that Ann not only questioned his ethics in her veto message but in a letter to the bar association. I guess that would tend to rise one's ire even if it was a bit over the top. However, the look of fear on Owenbsy's face was priceless.
Speaking of ethics: On Channel 5 news, Ann was interviewed as saying that some of the COGG members (well, she said those collecting signatures) had questionable ethics. I guess this is her new favorite charge. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Now that I think about it. Why didn't Mr. Herman reach over and rip that road kill off of Owenswig's head, instead of slamming the water bottle on the table? I mean if you're going to toss in some theatrics, why not go for some real drama.
Heap-um Scalp-um ug-womp.
Suzyjax,
Thank you for keeping on the mayor and her merry band of thugs. To let things drop off now would be a big mistake. That's what they're hoping for. Everyone to get tired of this whole mess.
Not only am I not going to celebrate until the police escort her out of city hall hopefully with a 21 gun salute aimed at her backside, don't forget Brown & Karam are going nowhere. She may and hopefully will be at least gone but they will not, just waiting to put their next one in.
Mr. Whitefolks,
Just like Mr. Herman there comes a breaking point and Knode has reached that with apparently quite a few people. Listening to him is like fingernails on a chalk board. Is it immature, probably not. And I must admit it is hard to respect the process when you have to listen to the likes of Knode, Owensby & the mayor. They do not respect the process nor do they intend to follow it.
Should we be bigger than them, probably so but some people have the ability to bring out the worst in the best of people. And those 3 seem to have mastered that if nothing else.
Donna, Sweaty, Fannymae & Spydog,
Spydog why don't you go wet on a neighbors tree.
Sweaty, if you know I am Jeffery why didn't you say hi to us last night, at the meeting. Why because I'm not Jeffery and if I were after you & Spydog calling his wife basically a whore I'm pretty sure she would have said something to you. I know my wife would have.
Hey, Sweaty besides a concession stand & partners in a bead store have you ever worked with the elderly?
Mr. Whitefolks,
Sorry, that should be is it immature probably so.
TwoLayer, I have never been accused of acting my age. :)
Had the new dish at Woofie's this afternoon, the Big Herm Melt. That was pitiful. He has done such a nice job of taking the high road and then the water bottle. Everyone can break (except T&C Mauler. You can order melts on rye but not with impunity. His theatrics definitely costs the majority some face. Trial lawyers are trained to sit and take it. Beat them in the jury room or, in this case, at the polls. The melt was nothing more than a display that showed that he is every bit as capable of childlike antics as his nemesis the mayor.
Whitefolks was right on in describing those in the crowd as fans at a high school basketball game. At best, its a "me-too" act of defiance. Maybe next time they can all raise a single fist in the air during the pledge. How about laying down in front of the...... you get the picture.
Norm is also right. The recall is about votes and momentum. Its important to keep our heads down, behave ourselves, don't stoop to their level. When Con calls people names or tries outlandish threats, reveal them for what they are. Keep the pace. Maybe residents' comments should be nothing more than a long line of people who stand in line to say the same simple sentence. "My name is XXXX, I live at XXXXXX and I plan to vote against you in the recall election." Nothing more. A very effective act of defiance. It shows respect for the institution and it keeps the quiet but intense momentum moving.
If, instead, we continue to listen to the Hobby Shop Developers, watch the Herm melt, watch the pep club stand up and turn-around, etc.; eventually, the rational citizens just say,
"F- it. They're all the same".
"But we're not"
"Prove it".
A high school basketball game would have folks cheering maybe half the time.
mr. whitefolks, standing and turning away from Knode's rambling isn't that far from changing the channel on TV, to reject the message being made public.
Better the COGG folks did that, than holler at the top of their lungs; they were silent.
I agree that further hammering is needed to send a strong message.
So why did owensby walk out grinning with a box of hundreds of cookies under his arm?
Naz,
Again, with the analogy that is off base. The high school move of turning your back on the crowd is not at all like changing the channel. Changing the channel would be going to the County Council or moving to Breckenridge. Turning around is like keeping the TV on and looking at the wall or turning the sound down. Either way, its non-sensical and sophomoric. Believe me it aint just whitefolks that sees it this way. He is just too nice to point out how academic your analysis is. Fisher Price anyone.
Truth, it is not that easy. The Board of Election Commissioners has certified the signatures for the election. Any challenge to the authenticity of the signatures must be leveled against the Board of Election Commissioners and not the Committee. Even if Con wants to take that route, so be it. She lost in court before.
Keep in mind, legal fees go both ways. For every deposition there are two lawyers present. If Con wants to pay for one so be it. Also, no matter what the blog says, the fees are not paid by the City and neither were Tu Wong's. Stay the course. Pace is important. In the end, we win.
Take the same effort and stand up and turn around or scream at the meetings, disrespect the institution....... they all lead to alienation. The quiet confidence and constant plodding will win.
Robert Herman has served the City of Overland in a very capable manner for 22 years. Can you even imagine how many hours of bickering he has endured over the years? I have long admired his restraint during the Purzner fiasco. In his place, I fear I would have turned homicidal months ago. He has suffered ridicule, scorn, discounting and constant insults being hurled at him by the disreputable idiots on this council. I too, regret his angry response to accusations of unethical conduct. It made a skilled professional lose face in the sight of his supporters, the crowd assembled there and the media. I am sure that Mr. Herman regrets his outburst, However I fully understand and forgive it. I marvel that it didn't happen sooner.
If any of you find him at fault, please imagine yourself seated in his place with Infantile Owensby continually yowling in your ear; "You're out of order Mr. Herman", Rich Knode videotaping himself as he rants, raves and pontificates endlessly.Our useless Neanderthal, Sellars, continues to hibernate whilst the Queen of Sleaze and Confabulation stammers on without a clue dispite the charitable efforts of The City Clerk and the City Attorney to keep her on track and abiding the laws of the land. She of course continues to violate them, insisting that she is the mayor and entitled to do as she pleases {or as directed by the "Godfather", Mark Brown}
May I conclude with one comment about Mr. Hermans indiscretion?
IT IS DIFFICULT TO SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE WHEN SURROUNDED BY TURKEYS!
Sam,
My sentiments exactly. I would have most definitely lost my composure long before now. Does this excuse Herman's behavior? No, but he is only human. Owenswig's constant screeching would give the most mild mannered human, murderous thoughts.
I do not know Mr. Herman, Herron or Ms. Downs personally. I do not know how they can keep their composure especially the chief & city clerk with having to deal with some of these people on a daily basis. Herman did crack but I have not walked in his shoes and would not want to.
Right or wrong I give all of them credit for even showing up.
Hopefully in April the voters will vote out Knode & Sellers if they choose to run & of course the mayor if the recall is scheduled then.
Sweaty,
You are a waste of my time.
I like Herm but I am not sure I agree. Professionals are supposed to act like, well..... professionals. Herm is not serving some noble cause. He is a lawyer that has been hired by a client and the client is now refusing to pay. Members of the client's board are insulting him. The Mayor of the client has filed a bar complaint. The answer to none of these affronts is to explode at a public meeting and slam a water bottle on the table. Frankly, the Chief should have asked him to leave just like the Chief should ask anyone who acts inappropriately to leave. The answers to the above acts are as follows:
Client refuses to pay: keep working for free until it gets worked out(if ever), or fire the client, or sue the client in court. You are a lawyer, courts are where we work out our disputes.
Client insults you: deal with it or fire the client
Mayor files bar complaint: defend it to the MO Supreme Court Disciplinary Counsel. Its done every day.
Bottom line, being a lawyer is a profession. You need to conduct yourself in accordance with certain standards. I assure you those standards do not include, under any circumstances, getting in the face of your client. In fact, what lawyers do best is to help take some of the emotion out of what can be farily emotional situations. If he pulled that in Court, he would be sitting in a cell.
I have admired Herm for putting up with the bs. He does not need the money. I am sure he sticks around b/c he is principled and does not want to see this mayor prevail with such an absolute contempt for the law. That is admirable but, if he can no longer do so and be civil, he needs to fire the client and move on.
Ej,
I know there are certain standards of behavior that are to be followed in many different professions. But we are all human.
I can not speak for Mr. Herman but I would think his head and heart were telling him two different things. You know you shouldn't but then it happens. Me personally, I think if it would have been anyone else on the board saying it, he may not have responded the same way. But after what has come out about her (RN, no degree) you would think she would be the last one to talk about anyone else's ethics.
I have heard a couple of different reasons why he has choosen to stay, if they're true or not I have no idea.
Use Owensby to mop and buff wax the gym floor.
Does Dirty Hairy sew that thing on to his head, or glue it on?
Inquiring minds want to know.
TwoL,
Its not just certain standards followed by certain professions. Lawyers are governed by a Code of Professional Conduct. Mr. Herman's tirade is contrary to that code. It is not a matter of courtesy. It is what is required to maintain your license. Violate the standards and you face disciplinary action.
Makes no difference who on the board is saying it. When he is there, he is acting in his professional capacity and his behavior needs to be in accord.
I agree. We all have had moments that we wish we could take back but that doesn't mean that we are somehow excused from the repercussions of our actions. I believe Mauler said that the melt is not served with impunity and I agree. Herm is so offended that Con has accused him of violating his ethical responsibilites that he gets up, screams and violates his ethical responsibilities. Huh?
Don't get me wrong. I feel for Big Herm but he needs to keep it in check. If he can't, he should step aside.
EJ,
I'm not disagreeing with you that Mr. Herman should have kept his cool. I'm just saying haven't we all be there at one time or another. That does not excuse him, it just makes him human.
We went from asking what year you graduated from high school and where to I've been hearing people, before they talk ask who's side are you on.
Does it make it right or wrong I have not idea.
I am only going by past expriences I have had myself. I have had to deal with people like Purzner & her group not only in business but with family.
I'm not saying he should have done what he did, but that I understand where it came from. You (I'm talking about myself) can only take so much. And lord knows that goup would try the patience of Jobe.
I try very hard not to judge what someone else does or does not do.
But as hard as I try I to fail.
The past 7 to 8 months I think has gotten to a lot of people at one point or another.
two layer: I agree that this mayor has really affected us deeply - we, the voters, we the taxpayers, residents & citizens of our dear Overland.
We'll rejoice mightily when this mayor is out of office.
When Mr. Herman stood up to that woman, he reflected OUR deep and widely-felt dissatisfaction.
TwoL,
This statement makes no sense to me:
"We went from asking what year you graduated from high school and where to I've been hearing people, before they talk ask who's side are you on.
The problem is that although you may not want to judge people, the Disciplinary Counsel for the State of MO is forced to judge people everyday. Herm crossed the line. You're not sure if its right or wrong, its wrong.
Naz, I'm beginning to see what T&C Mauler means. You are simply fabricating motives where no such evidence exists. Herm stood up out of self interest because the Mayor has not paid HIS bill and the Mayor filed a bar complaint against HIM. He did not reflect OUR feelings. He took out HIS frustrations.
By the way, I like Herm. He is the best thing the City has going for it but, effectiveness can be a fleeting thing. You are held to a standard when sitting in that chair, whether at the end without a mike or not. I know he is human. To argue to the contrary makes no sense. The fact is, he is a professional, acting in a professional capicity. His behavior needs to comport with his obligations. If he cannot serve the role and keep it in check, he needs to step aside. Nothing personal and no commentary on him as person.
ej "lucky" cantrell, I suppose you refer to the words I posted right above yours.
I typed this:
"When Mr. Herman stood up to that woman, he reflected OUR deep and widely-felt dissatisfaction."
I didn't hear exactly what happened up front. [My ADHD makes the meetings more tolerable.] I saw the attorney standing in front of the mayor and being angry. I can relate to angrily crabbing at a mayor who is so useless, self-serving and gullible. I didn't mean to say that I knew what exactly was on the mind of others, or the attorney himself. I feel that Overland in general is dealing with a terribly depressing lack of leadership. I'm tired of Purzner, Knode and Owensby.
Since I expressed myself less than perfectly, maybe I can deflect attention away from my nonsense by pointing out another statement.
Let's see if the following message can be improved:
"We went from asking what year you graduated from high school and where to I've been hearing people, before they talk ask who's side are you on."
Let's read it with imagination:
"We went from asking what year you graduated from high school and where, to we've been hearing people before they talk, ask "Who's side are you on?"
See how clear it is now? I think the sentence means that the we're "hearing people, before they talk".
What Town & Country Mauler says doesn't necessarily make sense to me, so I guess it takes all kinds.
More human than human? A White Zombie?
It's nice that people in hind sight can say, it's like this and like that and like this and uh!!!
Too bad Herman is not perfect, then we could all touch the hem of his garment and be healed. Jeepers crow.
Ej & Whitefolks,
I am going only by what I have encountered. When I have met someone new from Overland or out I used to get asked if I went to Ritenour & what year I graduated. Now I get who's side are you on first. I have personally had people I have known for years avoid me because they know I signed the recall.
I am also thinking of his 22 year history with Overland and what knowing the mayor for 14 to 16 years. Right, wrong or inbetween I don't care, after 22 years I would think it would be just a little hard to keep your personal feelings out of it. After 22 yrs you'd have to be a robot for it not to effect you in some way.
I thought what Mr. Herman did months ago by giving his the mayor has brought trash back to Overland speech was much more inappropriate, for a person in his position, then what he did the other night.
I only said that if it would have been anyone else besides her I think he would have acted differently because of his long history with her, only because I have watched him with Owensby. And god knows Owensby in my opinion has done everything possible to piss him off & he has yet to take a swing at him. Which I give him credit for.
And yes Mr. Whitefolks I'm well aware of the fact that we're all human.
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